Well, I just wrote a long post and promptly
accidentally erased it....I will try again!
For many people on this board, this may be their
first personal experience in being shill bid. I
agree with TK that it is very uncomfortable to
talk about especially when the person in question
is someone who has been active and friendly on
this board, and who is probably truly an
enthusiastic cel collector.
But, shill bidding is not a light crime, it
is theft, imho. Even without realizing it, anyone
who participates in it has been stealing. Even if
you thought that it was legal or that it just
brought the prices of the cels up to their real
value. There are other ways of insuring that you
get the bids you are comfortable with.
For those that want more info on Shiling:
I took a look at the bidders lists of the two
shillers, both are classic shill bidder patterns.
They both bid first on other sellers auctions
(helps to appear more legit), before settling on
only Womengem's auctions. In nearly all cases they
bid early and low on the other sellers auctions,
insuring (in all but one case) that they would not
actually win. In the auctions by Womengem, they
bid through the auctions in small amounts, and
placed their final bid within several hours of the
auctions closing, leaving time for snipers to take
the auction...which is what shillers bank on.
These patterns, along with low feedback (some
shillers buy several small dollar items in order
to get good feedback before they start shiling in
ernest) and as was stated before, bidding on
several unrelated items from a single seller.
These are the best and easiest ways to discover a
shiller. I have busted shill bidders quite a few
times in my time on ebay, and have found that I
had been shill bid, too. In one case (not cel
related) I paid over sixty dollar more than I
would probably have paid. It is VERY hurtful and
angering to find out....as can be seen here.
For Joyka:
If it was me, even if I didn't know originally
that I had done something wrong (which may be the
case here, I don't know the age of the people
involved but I suspect that there is underage
auctioning going on here)...I would do what I had
to do to make people feel better about having
bought from me and to try to regain trust. In this
case, I would return a portion of the payment to
every single person who bought from me in an
auction that was participated in by the shillers.
Regarless of how many people bid on the auction
or how high the bids went, I would go all the way
down to the number below the first shill bid, and
pay back the buyers the difference. Yes, you will
lose a lot of money, and the cels will have sold
for much less than you wanted to get....but I
think that honesty and trust is the most important
thing you can have in business or a hobby that you
want to be involved in. There is a way to make
ammends, but it is going to be expensive.
Joyka, even though you don't know me, if you would
like me to help you go throught the auctions and
come up with the amounts of money to return to
people and try to work out any other problems, I
would be happy to help. Just email me, I would
like to do what I can to help you try to fix this
and show you are sincere. This is about the most
that anyone can do at this point, I think. I feel
bad for everyone involved, all the way around.
Kathleen |