Well, at the risk of not 'dropping it', I will 
respond.

>Let's face it, your idea of refunding that kind 
>of cash isn't going to happen and I'm not sure it 
>should.

Well, I can just go by how it felt when it 
happened to me. That was what I wanted. And no, it 
didn't happen, I didn't get any repayment....but I 
think that it should be offered. Why? Because this 
is a small community, and if someone wants to 
continue in it, they should make every effort to 
do what the buyers who were burned want. If they 
want something else, she should do that. She 
should do something. As to it happening or not, 
well...give her a chance. It can only help the 
people who are hurt. 

>People seem to be unhappy because they think they 
>paid more than they should because of shilling. 

This has already been commented on, but I will 
just say that that isn't really the point. It 
isn't more than they 'should' have paid, but 
certainly in most cases...more than they 'would' 
have paid. You never know, in some cases, perhaps 
seeing so many bids by one bidder made others back 
off, and the cel might have sold for less than it 
could have! That is the problem with shilling, 
everything is suspect, because there is no way to 
know what would have happened. What the cel was 
worth is not the problem, it is the damaged trust. 
That affects everyone. There is more of a need for 
trust in the cel community than in many other 
collectibles, as you probably know. Trading and 
buying with strangers is always risky, but people 
try to minimize that risk by feeling they know who 
they are dealing with here. So of course this type 
of news shakes people up.

>What makes anyone think they should get a cel for 
>less than it's going rate? Why should they be 
>more entitled or deserving of it, so much so that 
>they get to pay less than someone else?

If you have ever read any of my posts on the 
subject, you would know that I am not of that 
philosophy at all. I believe that there is nothing 
wrong with selling an item at it's 'value', 
regardless of what you paid for it, etc. I also 
don't think there is anything wrong with profit.  
However, this is an auction without a reserve and 
a low starting bid that we are talking about. In 
that case, the seller has to take a risk that on 
that day, the cel may very well go for less than 
what it is 'worth' to them or the average market 
value. This has nothing to do with padding the 
auction with shills to make sure that the risk is 
minimal. 
If you are willing to pay $120 for a cel, and that 
is what you win it for,  but in fact could have 
won that cel for $40 without shilling.... how does 
that make it wrong or unfair for you to feel like 
you were duped? I don't think there is a person in 
the world who would'nt react to that news. It 
would have been much better for the seller to just 
put a reserve or "buy it now" for the price they 
wanted, since we have both those options on ebay. 

>I am sure people are going to be angry, so flame 
>away!

No thanks. Flaming is something that my post was 
trying to avoid.  

Ebay has done it's thing by kicking off the 
offender(s), which in this case is very well done. 
But it doesn't stop anyone from getting another ID 
and continuing this stuff today. And it is obvious 
that this seller has also made some other very 
unfortunate decisions. The only thing that would 
really stop this kind of thing from continuing is 
for the person to understand what they have done 
wrong, and to change what they have been doing. 
That is not something that ebay or anyone is going 
to do, they can only do that for themselves and 
hope that people give her a second chance. 


Kathleen